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DOBBSIE'S EXTERIORIZATION
Ah, John Dorsay, my one and only true love,
John is a meatball much as I was, however he has serious depth,
personal integrity and a sharp and honest mind that actually works and a
joy to converse with.
> Because whatever Dobbs calls "exteriorization" and the data he can
> report is as trivially demonstrable and exactly as useful as my
> infinite supply of write-only memory and the data it can report.
> Exteriorization is no more interesting than write-only memory.
Not if he can see things the body's eyes can not see and report
back on them accurately to others.
In the movie 'men who stare at goats', the two guys were stuck in
the dessert, and one of them was pulling cards off a card deck at
random, and the other was telling him what they were.
When asked what his longest run of successful calls was, he said
over 600.
Now how can you say that is not interesting?
> You and I went down a much more interesting path recently when we
> discussed dreamspace vs meatspace. While I might be able to nitpick
> some minor details of your dreamspace model with some success, I
> recognize that neither of us can demonstrate its (in)?correctness as
> a whole. The same problem exists with the meatspace model of the
> universe.
>
> As I recall, we agreed about this limitation of both models and
> enjoyed some generally serious but occasionally light-hearted
> discussion about ways one might overcome the problem, and thus
> determine that either model is correct or incorrect. But we were
> unable to reach any conclusion. I'm not sure that it is even
> possible to show the problem is either solvable or unsolvable.
OK, I am going to have to pull some orthodox science on you.
Every word of which I am sure you know, so this is just
for the record and so we talk accurately and not in the language
of hyenas and other hypocrites.
Theories or models are never true or false, only workable and
unworkable.
We confuse workable with true and unworkable with false to our
detriment. Only direct perceptions of things as they are can be called
true or false.
The meatball and dreamball THEORIES are theories, to account for
and predict phenomenon.
The dreamball theory says that consciousness is eternal and prime
cause of illusions of space, time, outthereness, and external causality.
Dreams in other words.
The meatball theory says that space and time are prime cause of
consciousness which can render images in itself of what space and time
are like. It is asserted that there is a geometric similarity between
the conscious rendition of a cube and the actual referent out there in
space and time.
Space time existed before consciousness, and consciousness is a
process in a spacetime gizmo called the brain. When the brain ceases,
the consciousness ceases too.
The meatball theory claims that love and shame can of force
and mass be made.
Now the meatball theory is relatively new to the world, and frankly
it is in a great state of disrepair. First Newton, then Einstein, and
now just about anyone will admit they haven't a clue what they are
talking about.
All they know is it works up to a point, meaning we are going to
need a quantum leap into the next level of theory in order to account
for things we have already observed but which violate present theory.
This doesn't mean the meatball theory is wrong, it only means it is
inaccurate or incomplete, meat can do more than we know.
So someone can do the card thing. Or he can see through walls,
read minds, move the marble, remember past lives and go dig up the box,
whatever.
We DEFINE OT powers as any ability or event that violates present
meatball theories particularly our understandings of conservation of
momentum and energy.
God by definition therefore was an OT when he said "let there be
light", because that violated conservation of everything!
Now whether that God is a conscious sentient being, or just an
underlying mechanism, it is pretty clear according to present theories
that 'before' spacetime was something that was not spacetime, and
therefore the basic creation of spacetime was a violation of
conservation of of momentum and energy, and thus an OT event by
definition.
Thus once spacetime is created, we then like to pretend that OT
events can no longer happen on their own nor at the command of a
conscious being.
First, just because we THINK we have violated these, doesn't mean
we have, it might just mean the meatball universe is bigger and more
encompassing that we know.
Now everything scientific starts off with a observation of some
kind of dependable followingness between two different events, and
results in a need for a model or theory of causation to account for the
dependability of that followingness.
Sun rises, cock crows. How come?
That's science.
The purpose of theory is to change a statistically (too) high
probability of followingness into NECESSARY followingness.
Cause is necessity of followingness, and necessity of followingness
is cause.
Once a theory has been formed, predictions usually can be made that
allow us to find other observations of followingness that should also
exist.
So we apply the meatball theory to the guy with the cards.
Meatballism ca. 2010 says there are 4 fundamental forces of
nature, and consciousness is a process in them.
They seek a unified theory of everything, where the 4 are reduced
to one, but they also think they can explain consciousness and the
facility of perfect certainty with force across a distance. Thus they
will fail if it is true that perfect certainty is not possible across a
distance.
Data can only flow along these forces at the speed of light, and we
are pretty good at measuring those forces down to trillionths of an erg.
So first experiment is we lay a card pack down on a table laid out
up side down and the telepath can read them off perfectly. How do we
account for this?
A mature person can deal with the hypothetical, he doesn't
say well I will think about it when someone does it.
The idea is to think about it first, come up with a possible
theory, which will then lead you to being able to do it!
The hypothetical process is what distinguishes the mature
scientific mind from the congenitally defective hyena.
Second experiment is the telepath can NOT read the cards on the
table, but can if another being sees them first one at a time as in the
movie.
The first experiment indicates data flow from cards to telepath
without the intervention of another being.
The second experiment indicates data flow from being to being.
Can the meatballs find, detect and measure this?
Not in present time.
Is it a significant set of experiments? *VERY*.
Now meatballism tends to think of 'out there' as all there is, in
other words all the cause that flows, flows from point to point through
out there. So if we can intercept the causal messenger wave while it is
on route, then we can say we have found the means of data flow.
But quantum mechanics now recognizes the theoretical possibility
that out there is not the source of causal flow, that the meatball
universe is a rendition of the outcomes taking place in a higher
universe called the non local universe, wherein actual cause actually
takes place.
It is called 'non local' because events there are not described by
locations on space or time, yet which effect the final rendition in
space and time.
(This idea renders the out there universe to be a TV screen
which is showing what is going on in the non local universe.
That's gone step away from the dream ball universe, which gets rid
of the out there universe entirely, and claims that non local universe
IS the global High US consciousness.)
The relegating cause to the non local universe allows and explains
various experiments where the flow of cause between point A and point B
CAN NOT be found in out thereness between the two points, but where the
flow of cause is clearly happening anyhow, presumably directly from the
nonlocal universe into the meatball universe bypassing anything in
between.
This would allow instantaneous quantum entanglement between two
distant particles, and might allow an INWARD pathway from one
consciousness to another allowing data flow to account for the card
reading ability between two beings separated by a distance.
In other words data in consciousness does not need to flow through
the out there model of 4 fundamental forces any more, but can
communicate up to the non local universe from one being and back down to
the other being without ever going THROUGH any space or time.
The dream ball theory has a totally different take on it, namely
the out there universe doesn't exist, the conscious renditions we are
conscious of are dreams in the zero dimensional substrate of a multi I
AM God called the HIGH US, and by definition these dreams are shared via
that same zero dimensional causal substrate between beings, that has
nothing to do with any thing in the dream, as there is no external cause
at all, only virtual renditions of cause, as in a multi player arcade
game.
Further, although the proof says perfect certainty can not
happen across a distance between two different objects of cause
and effect, there is nothing prohibiting it from happening in
a zero dimensional universe where cause and effect are one event
with no space time between them.
Since all space time in the dreamball theory is holographic
illusion, the colors are real but the out thereness is not,
there is no actual space time between any two beings, thus
they can communicate instantaneously and do so in the sharing
of the dream.
IN the dream, things are limited by the speed of 'cause' or
light, but between beings there is not such limitation.
Note however that allowing intra dream data to flow along inter
dream data paths at instant speeds, would seriously mess up conservation
of momentum, energy and cause in the dream, thus possibly really
screwing up the game, if only by waking everyone up that it was nothing
but a dream game.
Now the question is, not which theory is right, but which theory is
more useful to predict what other abilities there might be, and HOW TO
GET THEM.
When Einstein first came up with E=mc2, a reporter asked
him if that could ever be used to get energy. This was way back
in 1913, forgive me if I forget the correct date.
He said NO, its just a theory.
30 years later it became a reality with the Atom Bomb and
the winning of world war II against some serious evil.
Same thing with the dream theory, right now it predicts all kinds
of things that most of science has never done, and so it is 'just a
theory'.
Give it 40 years through and watch what the face of war becomes
like.
The dreamball theory has a very clear statement on this matter,
of HOW to get OT powers back.
Now remember an OT power *BY DEFINITION*, so don't argue with it,
is any ability or event that violates dream or meat space rules of
energy and momentum.
Thus any being with such abilities would be like a micro God, able
to 'create' a micro big bang space time event in present time.
Create one photon out of the blue, and that is what you have done.
That a conscious being could do this now, does NOT mean a conscious
being did it at the real big bang, but it might mean the conscious being
now has tapped into the underlying causal substrate that originally
caused and continues to support the existence of space time, be it a
dream or not.
The dreamball theory shows a quick way to such OT powers, the being
chose to enter the dream state, by auditing that choice and its
motivations the being can wake up from time, and reenter time again if
it wants. Since the being is already projecting the cards on the table,
SOMETHING already knows what those cards are and the being can tap into
that knowledge by direct perception of perfect certainty, as it had that
knowledge coming in, and in fact is choosing to not know that knowledge
while in the dream.
Exact approaches may vary, but the general approach is to duplicate
the choice AND MOTIVATION to coming in and to not know the various
things that are not known but which are clearly projected.
The dream theory also claims that the being wakes up into
the OT eternal state every time it is seriously hurt, and there
makes postulates which create psychosomatic conditions in this
body, heart, mind and soul, which it can not then get rid of.
Again by auditing those moments of ascension during pain and
outward 'unconsciousness', the being can amend it's decisions and thus
get well again.
> If it was possible to prove exteriorization exists, that would also
> show that the meatspace model is incorrect. The latter is a "hard",
> perhaps unsolvable problem. I am not disputing the possibility that
> Dobbs experiences exteriorization, however unlikely I think that may
> be. But I am disputing the possibility he can prove it.
We must not confuse proof with evidence.
The only evidence we would have of Dobbsie's exteriorization is
reporting data the body can not see.
That is the only USEFUL evidence in a shared universe, where we
cannot prove the existence of others, nor of the shared space time the
meatball theory hypothesizes is there.
The meatballs think that because something LOOKS like it is out
there it must COME FROM out there. They forget they could be dreaming.
> Just to be clear, I'm not rejecting your dreamspace model. As
> tempting as it is to dismiss its requisite preconditions as defying
> reason, the same problem plagues the meatspace model when one asks
> what came before the big bang. That being said, I can offer a
> thought experiment that in my opinion tilts the scale towards the
> meatspace model. I can't think of any that favor the dreamspace model.
The whole issue of what is 'before' time is mostly a verbal problem
in understanding. Our spacetime minds can only understand linear cause
and effect in time.
The whole idea that a being could 'move out of eternality into
temporality' is verbal nonsense, but so many have reported it that one
needs to see through the verbal nonsense to what possibly is really
going on beyond the hyena cat-calls of hallucination and delusion.
If we can understand that space is a holographic illusion, we
certainly can at least conceive the possibility that time is a
holographic illusion also.
I look forward to your thought experiment.
Anyhow your position needs to be modified by the possibility that
someone actually did read the cards to your satisfaction.
I suspect that only absence of evidence in your world for such
things keeps you hanging on to the meatball model.
When the being is exteriorized from space and time, and sees the
coming in and returning to eternality going on with every breath, and he
understands intellectually that the existence of the conscious rendition
(symbol) does not prove or even give evidence for he existence of an
actual physical referent which he has never seen, the whole idea of a
meatball universe begins to fade.
It remains as a VIRTUAL meatball universe however, accurate
down to the last quark.
Homer
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Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
homer@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
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Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
homer@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
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Posted: Fri Dec 10 17:05:08 EST 2010
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